The “Banker”

Player Tips, ideas, impressions about the game and its mechanical

The “Banker”

Postby Veldriss on 17 Apr 2011, 20:11

The “Banker” is Zamein’s idea, but others also thought about it, especially Mozzy…

It’s a player “off the map”, with no armies or kingdom… he just manages the game and its parts.

Its job is to make the game more interesting with casual events that balance the players’ decisions and keeps the suspense throughout the various rounds.

An example?

The Templars decide to help you in your attack against Muslims and send some cavaliers in your help: you receive XXX legions for this attack.

You are asked to organize a Crusade in Northern Europe, you become head of the Teutonic Cavaliers, you have 3 rounds to conquer Novgorod.

A commercial fleet of a faraway population is crossing the Mediterranean, you can attack it and earn a huge sum…no one will ever know what really happened…

You have achieved an important trade level, you have become the economic centre of the entire region, you can build a COMMERCIAL BUILDING for free in each of your towns.

Etc etc…

Space for imagination, you can write some examples, I will definitely consider them and eventually put them into the game as optional rules in the “Banker” section.
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Balance

Postby Veldriss on 17 Apr 2011, 20:11

Easier said than done, because it is easy to be partial and help one player rather than another…we should have helped the weaker player? Weaken the strongest? How can you put rules like this?

Or, we could create some situations and then randomize them, in positive or in negative.

Nothing was done, we tried 3-4 times, but it was so difficult that I didn’t consider it much.
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Re: The “Banker”

Postby Veldriss on 17 Apr 2011, 20:12

Thinking about it, there are some solutions, maybe…

For example, I could create a list of ACTIONS that the banker can do and give them a BONUS/MALUS, for example from -5 to +5… and the banker could batter the players with the ACTIONS, remembering not to go above +5 or below -5:

All the players start off with a BONUS/MALUS=0

If the banker gives an ACTION to player X with a +3 bonus, the next time this player can have a maximum +2 ACTION (+3+2=+5) or any MALUS ACTION (-1 till -5) and so on…not bad… ;)

I must write this BONUS/MALUS thing down, and when I put the EVENT cards right I will think about it and see if I can put something automatic in. :lol:
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Re: The “Banker”

Postby Veldriss on 17 Apr 2011, 20:15

To see how the BANKER evolves, keep reading here:
Playtesting: Opzional Player (I must edit link, sorry for now)
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Re: The “Banker”

Postby Mozzy on 17 Apr 2011, 20:15

I was fine with Simo being the banker, but you must admit it was a bit of a flop…maybe we didn’t use it correctly…but we had got to the point where the banker was too powerful and controlled all the bids…in fact he always had more money than everybody else.

Some automatic rules? Ok, but what’s the point of a player if there are automatic rules?
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Re: The “Banker”

Postby Veldriss on 17 Apr 2011, 20:17

Mozzy wrote:I was fine with Simo being the banker, but you must admit it was a bit of a flop…maybe we didn’t use it correctly…but we had got to the point where the banker was too powerful and controlled all the bids…in fact he always had more money than everybody else.

Some automatic rules? Ok, but what’s the point of a player if there are automatic rules?


I agree…so why don’t we make him a master like in D&D :!:
:lol: :lol: :lol:

I would continue posting ideas here…some could become EVENT CARDS or maybe optional rules.
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Re: The “Banker”

Postby Veldriss on 17 Apr 2011, 20:46

Blodoks wrote:First of all, my posts are just ideas, suggestions, thoughts.
You will decide whether to keep them or throw them in the trash :roll:

The economic aspect is very interesting, and I would consider the banker as one of the player, instead of outside the game.

In that period in Europe there are two distinct strong economical and financial areas: the Hanseatic League in the North and some cities in the South (Florence was probably the most important).

The cities part of the Hanseatic League are quite close (geographically), while the offices are in strategic points: BRUGES, LONDON, BERGEN and NOVGOROD.

Image

In Florence lived some of the richest families of Europe: the Strozzi, the Acciaiuoli, the Peruzzi, the Bardi.
At the height of their power, these families had branches in BRUGES, LONDON, AVIGNON, TOLEDO, TUNISI, CHAMPAGNE, MARSEILLES, COSTANTINOPOLI, CYPRUS, RODI and other towns (also in Italy).
After these informations, here is my idea.

Image Image Image

In MedioEvo Universalis each player rules armies and kingdoms. The game, for each player, can start and finish even if we find the perfect solution for the bankers.

In fact, the transformation into a banker should be more of an opportunity, and be kept for who has control of Lubecca and/or Florence. From these two towns each company could branch out.

To be a banker each player must control a minimum network (4,5,6?) of branches chosen from a list of territories (two lists: Lubecca and Florence, with some territories which can be on both lists, such as Bruges and London). The branches guarantee an income each round.

If a player decides to be banker, he can sell his soldiers and free territories or move his legions into his branches (or head-office, Lubecca and Florence).
That’s it for now, also because as I don’t know the game I don’t know if I’m on track or not :)

What do you think of it?


Ok, let’s start thinking about it…but first some questions:

-in the map you posted there are 3 towns in orange (London, Bruges and Novgorod), defined as “Kontors”…what does it mean?

-which coat-of arms are the ones you posted? Kingdoms, markets, leagues?

-was there something like the Hanseatic League or the Markets of Florence for Islamic Kingdoms and for the Byzantines and the Mongols?
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Re: The “Banker”

Postby Veldriss on 17 Apr 2011, 21:06

Blodoks wrote:The cities in orange are the seats of the offices (kontors). Here the league bought buildings and transformed them into store houses where trades goods were stored. The store houses also had lodgings for the traders, the workers and the trainees.
I found some interesting information on the Kontor in Bergen (Norway): it was a mainly male community with a strict discipline and hard work. The Kontor had its own laws and a private education system. The members weren’t allowed to fraternize with the locals and especially with local women.

The coat-of arms I posted are those of the Florentine bankers’ families, Strozzi, Acciaiuoli and Peruzzi (from left to right). I didn’t find the coat-of arms of the Bardi. Each town of the Hanseatic League had its own coat-of arms. The one of the city of Lubecca, the double eagle, I found it on the coat-of arms of some secondary Kontors (Bergen and Novgorod):

Image

The Hanseatic League and the Florentine bankers formed the first “companies” and “societies”.
I honestly don’t know if something similar existed in the Arabic culture or in Asia.
Costantinopolis was the eastern border of Europe, and the Venetian and Genoese merchant had the power.
I know of a Turkish family that moved to France in 1800 and was extremely rich, but its fortune started later, not in the middle ages.
Outside Europe I doubt there was something similar in 1200-1400.


I asked you if something similar existed outside Europe because if we want to introduce new options in the game, these must be:
-balanced
-available for all players
-or there must be something equivalent to balance the other players.

…otherwise it becomes difficult to introduce something.

Let me ask you a question, maybe you know the answer: which were the most used coins in the second half of the 13th century? I mean on an international scale…were there 2-3 more used? Or did each area have its own coin?
Maybe the kingdoms accepted, for example, the Venetian coin and not the Genoese one or they preferred the Florentine florin etc…
Same thing for the Arabs, the Byzantines and the Khanate of the golden horde.
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Re: The “Banker”

Postby Veldriss on 17 Apr 2011, 21:11

Blodoks wrote:
Veldriss wrote:I asked you if something similar existed outside Europe because if we want to introduce new options in the game, these must be:
-balanced
-available for all players
-or there must be something equivalent to balance the other players.
…otherwise it becomes difficult to introduce something.


I completely agree with the idea of balancing the game.
As there were more families of Florentine bankers, there could be some possibilities.

Veldriss wrote:Let me ask you a question, maybe you know the answer: which were the most used coins in the second half of the 13th century? I mean on an international scale…were there 2-3 more used? Or did each area have its own coin?
Maybe the kingdoms accepted, for example, the Venetian coin and not the Genoese one or they preferred the Florentine florin etc…
Same thing for the Arabs, the Byzantines and the Khanate of the golden horde.


Carlo Magno created a European silver coinage with a monetary reform (substituting the gold coins). European mines produced a great deal of silver, but no gold.
The old gold “SOLID” was put into the new system based on silver “MONEY” with this equation: 1GOLD SOLID=12SILVER COINS.
Gold was worth 4,5 times silver.

So, before and after Carlo Magno, (from the fall of the Roman Empire till the beginning of 1200), the main coin was the SOLID (4,45grams of pure gold, coined in the Byzantine Empire).
http://www.moruzzi.it/il_solido_bizantino.html

In 1100 there was a monetary devolution thanks to the trade of the cities of the Mediterranean (Genoa, Venice and Florence) with the East and the Arab world.
So it was time for Europe to create a golden coin, and in 1252 Genoa and Venice coined the “GENOVINO” and the “FLORIN”. The Florentine bankers became the best and the most powerful of the Mediterranean and Europe, and the FLORIN became the main exchange coin in Europe: there were more than 3 million pieces.
Second place in this list is the French shilling (Ecu d’or in 1266) that was contested on an international level.

So, there is no doubt about the fact that in that period (1250-1300) the golden FLORIN was the most used coin.
http://www.moruzzi.it/il_fiorino.html
But in the Balkans and east Mediterranean, between 1200 and 1370, the BIG MATAPAN or GOLDEN DUCHY of Venice. Maybe this is why Venice limited the coinage of its money (some say only 3.300 pieces).

Other countries had their own coins, in silver, and tried to imitate more famous coins. England in 1257 coined a golden coin that was overrated, so for almost one century no more gold coins were made.
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Re: The “Banker”

Postby Veldriss on 18 Apr 2011, 00:46

Ok, I like the idea of a banker/player, let’s see if we can create something…

Blodoks wrote:In that period in Europe there are two distinct strong economical and financial areas: the Hanseatic League in the North and some cities in the South (Florence was probably the most important).


What about the Templars? They didn’t trade but had a lot of money, castles etc…we should consider them considering the “loans” they had and gave.

Another question: was there something equivalent for Muslims, Byzantines and Mongols? I want to know because if I have to introduce something new in the game the balance must be maintained…
In that case I would have to find a way to balance this with something completely different or abandon the idea.

Blodoks wrote:The cities part of the Hanseatic League are quite close (geographically), while the offices are in strategic points: BRUGES, LONDON, BERGEN and NOVGOROD.
In Florence lived some of the richest families of Europe: the Strozzi, the Acciaiuoli, the Peruzzi, the Bardi.
At the height of their power, these families had branches in BRUGES, LONDON, AVIGNON, TOLEDO, TUNISI, CHAMPAGNE, MARSEILLES, COSTANTINOPOLI, CYPRUS, RODI and other towns (also in Italy).


Ok, so as my map grows depending on the number of players, the Hanseatic League would enter the game with at least 8 players (maximum 10).

Blodoks wrote:In fact, the transformation into a banker should be more of an opportunity, and be kept for who has control of Lubecca and/or Florence. From these two towns each company could branch out.
To be a banker each player must control a minimum network (4,5,6?) of branches chosen from a list of territories (two lists: Lubecca and Florence, with some territories which can be on both lists, such as Bruges and London). The branches guarantee an income each round.


As an idea it’s not bad, but we must then decide if we must necessarily own the territory of Lubecca or Florence to become a banker…or for example at least 3 territories/branches…as I have to redo the map to correct other things, I might as well put on the territories which branches they have.

Blodoks wrote:If a player decides to be banker, he can sell his soldiers and free territories or move his legions into his branches (or head-office, Lubecca and Florence).


I don’t understand this: if he sells his armies…how does he defend himself?
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