IDEAS for the TECHNOLOGY cards

Genesis and assembling from the first ideas until the creation of the prototype

IDEAS for the TECHNOLOGY cards

Messaggio da leggereda Veldriss il 4 luglio 2016, 19:20

Good morning everybody, as you know I am about to redo the game cards, starting from the EMPIRE cards, then the TECHNOLOGY cards. If you click here: viewtopic.php?f=53&t=11194 you will find an almost definitive scheme of the new technological tree.

If somebody has some ideas, proposals, suggestions, changes on the matter, you can send me a private message or click on the link above.
Considering the time necessary to draw the cards, I think there will be one or two months for eventual changes, then it will be too late…at least for the 2010 version ;)

I’m counting on some amazing ideas, or a simple sketch, like our friend Mozzy does, so we can start from there… ;)

Thank you.
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Re: IDEAS for the TECHNOLOGY cards

Messaggio da leggereda silverwolf il 4 luglio 2016, 19:20

I’m not convinced of the logical connection between financial development and institutions, I think it should culminate with advanced financial institutions used as exchange offices (a bonus to trade abroad) and bank (bonus for the money made by a province), for example.

The introduction of the institutional aspect would be very interesting, but also quite difficult to put into the game.

I had an idea. If it is possible for a merchant to eliminate an opposite merchant, you could create the “holding” card (the Medici one was one) that gives money to the defeated merchant, allowing him to stay in the game for half the price of a new merchant. (Once per round).
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Re: IDEAS for the TECHNOLOGY cards

Messaggio da leggereda Veldriss il 4 luglio 2016, 19:21

Zamein and I had thought about using 2 different government systems in the technologies a couple of years ago… they were supposed to be the only 2 technologies that could difference a player (out of 25, the player could choose 24 technologies and one government system.)

I think that the feudal system was more common, the ruling families were emerging in Italian towns so it’s right to give the players the chance to opt for an alternative government. I don’t know what type of government the Mongols and Muslims had, but I suppose it was similar to the feudal system.

I wanted to give a bigger military bonus to feudalism, and a bigger economic bonus to the ruling families…they both have money in common, so I guess this is the reason that originated both of them!
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Re: IDEAS for the TECHNOLOGY cards

Messaggio da leggereda Zamein il 4 luglio 2016, 19:21

Silverwolf ha scritto:I had an idea for a possible idea.


What a genius! :D

So…I think that ruling families and feudalism are too different in terms of power; for example I have 7 cities with the road that takes to feudalism I earn 8 legions each round and 350 gold coins, plus 100 golden coins from taxes that become 200. I don’t think it is fair that those who have a military advantage also have an economical one, so I think that feudalism should halve the taxes and the ruling families should double them, and the 50 coins per town should be assigned to guilds, and the ruling families should have the mercenary brought from 5/10/15 to 10/20/30, trebling the cost (30 mo for each army, so that with the mercenaries I can at least partly compensate the huge quantity of legions that the feudalism has more.

This is just an idea, because in reality I think that money should be more useable during the game. Once you have the castles, and the cities have been customized and we have all 24 cards, money isn’t useful anymore and I don’t think that’s fair for those who choose trade over war. We should think of various technological developments to give offence and defence power, terrestrial and sea power, trade and military power and so on.

Each person should have the real chance to win even if they choose trade and a defensive strategy, so the coins should be employed concretely, while at the moment the only way to win is conquering.

In the past the game was all about war, you had to trade to buy the cards and so everything was aimed for war purposes.

If we develop some technological branches, we must give everybody the possibility to win, even if they choose to trade.

We could allow trading with blacks, for example.

I like how the purple line of technologies is structured, very balanced, even though theology doesn’t do anything, it just reduces the effects of a misfortune without giving anything concrete to the game; it should allow to build cathedrals, not like now (so 2 in the empire and 1 for each kingdom), but a third one in the empire and 2 in kingdoms worth 4, otherwise the effect is too feeble.

You must correct philosophy! And I think that the literature, philosophy, university, medicine, chirurgical, hospital branches are balanced, as well as the yellow lines. I have some doubts on the green branch, it’s the one that needs most cards to get to the 4th level, 7 cards before you can buy Fairs, which is quite a ridiculous bonus, as it only allows you to build trade centres. You should also give -1 for buying and +1 for selling.

Now the most convenient would be: pink branch until feudalism, all the yellow branch, the blue branch until the hospitals and excluding literature and the rest, all the purple branch, the green branch until the mill. A total of 24 cards plus the following bonuses:

- two legions each round
- 1 legion and 50 florins for a town (an average of 5 towns has 5 legions and 250 florins)
- the chance to trade all goods
- maximum population=10 on the plain, in hills and woods
- 5 florins for each plain (30 florins each round)
- +3 for ship movement
- +2 for terrestrial movement
- -1 for movements in desert, mountains, rivers and streams
- chance to build everything apart from trade centers
- areas of open sea
- chance to recuperate 20% of the legions lost after a major battle
- possibility of using the diplomat for one round
- empower the genius, relic and templar cards
- double the taxes
- upgrade rebellion from 3 to 4
- +5 legions with the mercenary.

That should be everything, the problem is that you give up:

- trade centers
- +10 maximum population on the plains
- -1 for buying, +1 for selling
- 10% of earning on coins you keep and don’t use
- an extra +5 on the mercenary
- diplomat not 1 but 3 rounds
- price of technologies halved.

I think that ruling families and fairs should be given more power, and it is necessary to give the chance to win to those who choose richness and not military power.

As far as the other cards are concerned, for the civilization card there should be a choice between empowering attack or defence (maybe another line of technologies that gives a bonus for offensive fighting, or for terrestrial or nautical troops.

For example there could be a card that allows to use the bonus of warships when you are attacking a town with a harbor (like in axis & allies), for terrestrial troops I don’t know, maybe you could allow to use more units, the card for those who use the defensive strategy could be the doubling of the necessary time to destroy fortresses using catapults.

I really don’t know about the empire cards, the only thing I can think about is that we could put some passage cards in trade territories.
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Re: IDEAS for the TECHNOLOGY cards

Messaggio da leggereda Veldriss il 4 luglio 2016, 19:24

Zamein ha scritto:So…I think that ruling families and feudalism are too different in terms of power; for example I have 7 cities with the road that takes to feudalism I earn 8 legions each round and 350 gold coins, plus 100 golden coins from taxes that become 200. I don’t think it is fair that those who have a military advantage also have an economical one, so I think that feudalism should halve the taxes and the ruling families should double them…


As you said, the sketch for RULING FAMILY and FEUDALISM was not balanced: doing what you proposed has balanced the situation…

Zamein ha scritto:and the 50 gold coins per town should be assigned to guilds…


For those who have FEUDALISM, the 50 gold coins have been revisited and assigned to different expansion levels: instead of 50 fixed florins for each town, now there are 20 florins for each 1st level town, 40 for 2nd level towns and 60 for 3rd level towns.
For those who have a RULING FAMILY, we put a discount on buying prices and a bonus on selling prices (combined with the level of expansion of the town: +1 florin for selling and -1 florin for buying in a 1st level town, +2 florins for selling and -2 florins for buying in a 2nd level town, +3 florins for selling and -3 florins for buying in a 3rd level town).

Zamein ha scritto:…and the ruling families should have the mercenary brought from 5/10/15 to 10/20/30, trebling the cost (30 mo for each army, so that with the mercenaries I can at least partly compensate the huge quantity of legions that the feudalism has more.


I have to think about this, but I don’t think I agree…if you’ve noticed, introducing some changes to make the first rounds faster (as asked by GIOCHI UNITI at PLAY 2010), in 5 rounds you almost always get to a direct clash between players… this means:
- that commerce tends to slow down (and even to disappear)
- that there aren’t enough florins to use not for war purposes
-that no TECHNOLOGY cards are bought, or just the 2-3 that are necessary.
We saw that when a war starts, nobody trades anymore, so we must wait for the war to end to get the economy and technological progress back on track.
I would have to try playing a game without wars to see if it could be possible, but each game is a different story…

Zamein ha scritto:This is just an idea, because in reality I think that money should be more useable during the game. Once you have the castles, and the cities have been customized and we have all 24 cards, money isn’t useful anymore and I don’t think that’s fair for those who choose trade over war. We should think of various technological developments to give offence and defence power, terrestrial and sea power, trade and military power and so on.


I could agree, but you will also agree that the game lasts more than 4 hours… ok, we will have to add another expansion.

Zamein ha scritto:You must correct philosophy! And I think that the literature, philosophy, university, medicine, chirurgical, hospital branches are balanced, as well as the yellow lines. I have some doubts on the green branch, it’s the one that needs most cards to get to the 4th level, 7 cards before you can buy Fairs, which is quite a ridiculous bonus, as it only allows you to build trade centres. You should also give -1 for buying and +1 for selling.


The green branch is big, because you must have ALL the lower cards to buy FAIRS…it is also true that everyone buys 3-4 cards from this branch because it’s the only way to obtain a bigger population in the territories and get some interesting bonuses such as TEXTURE and FORGERY.
If you then decide to buy FAIRS, the world of trade opens up to you and you can gain a lot of money… if you combine this with GUILDS and RULING FAMILY you could win everything I presume :P

Zamein ha scritto:Each person should have the real chance to win even if they choose trade and a defensive strategy, so the coins should be employed concretely, while at the moment the only way to win is conquering.
In the past the game was all about war, you had to trade to buy the cards and so everything was aimed for war purposes.
If we develop some technological branches, we must give everybody the possibility to win, even if they choose to trade.


The game is based on the conquest of HONOUR POINTS, if we want to add other ways to get HONOUR POINTS it’s fine by me, for example 1 HONOUR POINT every 1000 florins? You think of something, and we’ll surely find a solution.
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Re: IDEAS for the TECHNOLOGY cards

Messaggio da leggereda Veldriss il 4 luglio 2016, 19:25

I was still thinking about the FAIRS…we could put as a bonus:

- when you buy the FAIRS technology you can build a QUARRY/MARKET/FARM for free in one of your towns.

-or who has a FAIRS pays ¼ the price of QUARRY/MARKET/FARM…the standard price goes to 400 florins and they remain open for all.

Zamein ha scritto:we could allow trading with blacks, for example.


We should allow diplomacy to trade with Barbarians…maybe once you have bought EDUCATION you can trade with barbarian towns.
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