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Re: Layout and look of the new map

Messaggio da leggereInviato: 7 giugno 2016, 20:49
da silverwolf
So the BENI GHANIYA EMIRATE would include on my map TRIPOLITANIA, NORTH NUMIDIA, TUNISIA…I’ll add KABYLIA too, right?

Yes.

I think Corsica is under Genoa, I would put all of Sardinia under Arborea.

Perfect.

Re: Layout and look of the new map

Messaggio da leggereInviato: 7 giugno 2016, 20:59
da Veldriss
Immagine

Kingdom of Bohemia ok

Duchy of Swabia ok

Duchy of Poland I would make it of 2 territories and unite it with what I was calling Grand-duchy of Krakow.

I’m trying to colour the rest of northern Europe (Novgorod, Teutonic, Grand-duchy of Latvia), but I haven’t got a historical representation of that period…mine is too simplified.

Has somebody got a map of north-eastern Europe of 1260-1265?

Silverwolf, find me something on the boundaries of the northern Kingdoms…

Re: Layout and look of the new map

Messaggio da leggereInviato: 7 giugno 2016, 21:05
da silverwolf
Ok.
This image is perfect for Scandinavian countries even if it’s from 1219.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ia1219.png

This one explains the situation of the Teutonic cavaliers and the Lithuanians.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... n_1260.png

this one is for the golden horde (light gray) and dark gray for the vassals (Republic of Novgorod and Principality of Vladimir):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... %D0%B0.png

situation before the Mongol invasion, but the boundaries of the Principality of Vladimir (purple) and Republic of Novgorod (light green on the north) don’t change:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 8ru%29.svg

If necessary I will look for more.

Re: Layout and look of the new map

Messaggio da leggereInviato: 7 giugno 2016, 21:08
da Veldriss
The German and Cyrillic are interesting…have you got anything in Linear A???

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/ff/Deutscher_Orden_1260.png

What are the red dots?
Why are there 2 coats of arms on the top on the left? Are they both Teutonic? Were they separate?
The area with the diagonal lines was the Grand-duchy of Lithuania and was then conquered by the Teutonics?

Republic of Novgorod and Principality of Vladimir were vassals of the Golden Horde…I read something on internet, but it isn’t clear…I presume this situation was from before 1260, but until when?
What shall I do with the Principality of Vladimir? Can I consider it an active player or not?
Can I consider all the Russian Principalities united under Vladimir or are Kiev and the others separated?
Have the Russians any obligations towards the Golden Horde?

If I can put this area right then there’s only the Middle East left to do…

Re: Layout and look of the new map

Messaggio da leggereInviato: 7 giugno 2016, 21:09
da silverwolf
The Teutonic cavaliers incorporated an older Baltic order, the “sword bearers” or something similar. The red dots are the areas where there were rebellions against the catholic orders.

Vladimir commanded a coalition of other principalities, but the Russian principalities had to pay a tax to the Tatars. This situation will go on until the second half of the XIV century.

Re: Layout and look of the new map

Messaggio da leggereInviato: 7 giugno 2016, 21:10
da Veldriss
Ok, but the area with the diagonal lines was under the Grand-duchy of Lithuania and was then conquered by the Teutonics?

Was Vladimir head of all the principalities? Or were some of them independent (Kiev, for example)?

I’m looking at your image of the Teutonics…and my map:
Immagine

- so I should give Poland access to the sea (between the Teutonics and the Sacred Roman Empire) or didn’t it have it after 1260?

- is my Grand-duchy of Lithuania too big for that period? Looking at the image you posted it seems only in the territory I call Livonia.

- another question: but if I considered the Russian Principalities separate…the Principality of Novgorod was expanding rapidly, we might as well make the player Novgorod, not Russian…

Let’s finish these boundaries, so maybe I can present a historically correct map at PLAY (13th-14th March) :P

Re: Layout and look of the new map

Messaggio da leggereInviato: 7 giugno 2016, 21:11
da silverwolf
The territory with the diagonal lines is the disputed dominion, but the coastline is under the Teutonics.
I would make the region of Podlachia smaller in Lithuania, but I would leave the rest as it is.

Yes, the corridor towards the sea is a possible solution; the ideal thing would be a small territory (as the area will be conquered by the Teutonics in the XIV century). In 1260 this territory would be under the duchy of Poland.

Re: Layout and look of the new map

Messaggio da leggereInviato: 7 giugno 2016, 21:13
da Veldriss
Perfect, now it’s a lot clearer.

Now…let’s imagine that we don’t use the Russian Principalities as a player, but make the Principality of Novgorod a player…

I’ll update some territories…

Immagine

See if this is ok:
- strip of land towards the sea (Poland)
- eastern territory of Galicia reduced
- Novgorod becomes a PLAYER with 7 territories
- the Khanate of the Golden Horde becomes a PLAYER

Now help me divide the territories from 1 to 6…they should represent the Principalities created after the fall of Kiev…so…Principality of Vladimir, Principality of Minsk, Principality of Kiev, others?
How do I combine them with the six territories?

Re: Layout and look of the new map

Messaggio da leggereInviato: 7 giugno 2016, 21:13
da silverwolf
Perfect, in Russian history it had an important rule, like the Principality of Vladimir which was predominant only for a certain period. (Kiev in 1260 was in ruins, Moscow was of secondary importance).

1 Cernigov
2 Galicia
3 Smolensk
4 Tver
5 Vladimir
6 Nijni Novgorod

Re: Layout and look of the new map

Messaggio da leggereInviato: 7 giugno 2016, 21:14
da Veldriss
Wait, have you got any links on internet where I can consult the choices you made?
Because they don’t look right…:

ZONE 1 - Galicia is the territory south of 2, between Galicia and territory n.2 there is the river Dnepr.
If we consider how my map is orientated now, Kiev is territory 2 on the banks of the Dnepr…but if you say it’s in ruins, what do I call it?

ZONE 6 - there would be Moscow, the 7 territories in dark blue would be Novgorod

Maybe the Principality of Vladimir included more territories in my map?